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Subject: "Traditional and Modern lime plasters"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences Fresco Painting Plaster Arts & Modern Plasters and Classic Plaster Finishes Topic #19
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Joe19651moderator
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20-Dec-02, 08:40 AM (PST)
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"Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
 
   Mr. Anossov is a good friend of mine and an amazing artist, he owns this site has asked me to moderate this discussion board concerning Traditional and or Modern Lime plasters.

This board will be dedicated to help understand these products as a method of application and understanding the elements manufacturing of modern plasters.

Hope to make some friends and help you with your questions.

Grazie



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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Mitchell Henry 26-Dec-02 1
     RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters joe greco 27-Dec-02 2
  RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Roland L. Richer 05-Jun-04 3
  RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters TahoeBilly 16-Nov-04 5
     RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters adminadmin 22-Nov-04 6
         RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters willyartist 15-Apr-05 7
             RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Roger 15-Apr-05 8
             RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Gary sculptari 17-Apr-05 9
                 RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters william meyer 17-Apr-05 10
                     RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Mitchell Henry 17-Apr-05 11
                         RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters willyartist 17-Apr-05 12
                             RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Gary sculptari 17-Apr-05 13
                                 RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Gary sculptari 17-Apr-05 14
                                     RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters william meyer 17-Apr-05 15
                                         RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Roger 18-Apr-05 16
                                             RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters william meyer 18-Apr-05 17
                                     RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters kirsten 05-Jun-05 18
                                         RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Roger 05-Jun-05 19
                                         RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters adminadmin 06-Jun-05 20
                                             traditional lime over modern substrates kirsten 06-Jun-05 21
                                             RE: traditional lime over modern substrates adminadmin 06-Jun-05 22
                                             RE: traditional lime over modern substrates william meyer 10-Jul-05 23
                                             RE: traditional lime over modern substrates william meyer 10-Jul-05 24
                                             RE: traditional lime over modern substrates adminadmin 15-Jul-05 25
                                             RE: traditional lime over modern substrates kirsten 16-Jul-05 26
                                         RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters Montana 27-Feb-06 33
  Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster maria holden 21-Jul-05 27
     RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster adminadmin 24-Jul-05 28
         RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster glaze/glue 14-Oct-05 31
     RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster carmine b 13-Oct-05 29
         RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster marmorino 14-Oct-05 30
             RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster william meyer 17-Oct-05 32

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Mitchell Henry
Member since 2-Dec-02
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26-Dec-02, 00:38 AM (PST)
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1. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #0
 
   Hey Joe...or Grazie if you prefer.

I am also new to the forum, so welcome!

Coming here myself with a background in Italian wall finishes, I'm glad to see another member with a similar CV. In addition to being a merchant, are you also a painter? I'm not familiar with your product line, but I did check out your website...very nice...but, I was surprised to see what seemed like a somewhat (and correct me if I'm wrong, and I apologize if I am) synthetic line of materials. Is this what you mean by “modern plasters?”

Why is it so difficult to find authentic plasters in North America...not to mention fresco quality lime? I've found that the costs are usually the same, but the quality and working characteristics of the true Italian imports are so much better. Is it that the plaster companies in Italy just don't care to expand their U.S. sales, or is the demand just too low?

Just an opener...many more topics to go...I am very interested in speaking about application methods and the elements manufacturing. I hope there’s some more interest on the board.

Mitchell


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joe greco
unregistered user
27-Dec-02, 10:47 AM (PST)
 
2. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #1
 
   Hi Mitchell, thank you for visiting our web site.

We do carry lime products, as a matter of fact we offer 3 types.

MIZAAR smooth grasello type.
Classic Marmorino
Pitture alla Calce....lime paint.

Our sales in these products are starting to catch up with our synthetic's.

The market in ITALY is somewhat strange at times. Lime plasters are used approx 80% of the time. Synthetic's are still very common and used in different types of application.

I prefer the lime myself and have always beleived in them. The US market is growing very quickly in these types of Lime plasters. There are so many compaines that have products in USA from Italy or france. Do your research and price compare. The true importers have there products priced all in range with each other. The trend for traditional material is exploding and more and more applicators prefer the lime.

Hope that gives you an idea of what I mean by modern and old world plasters.



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Roland L. Richer
unregistered user
05-Jun-04, 05:37 PM (PST)
 
3. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #0
 
   Joe,

Check out this site
WWW.Stannartctr.org

This former church houses over 20,000 square feet of true fresco painting.

Let me know what you think.


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TahoeBilly
Member since 16-Nov-04
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16-Nov-04, 07:24 PM (PST)
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5. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #0
 
   What is the difference in the amount of magnesium in the putty (e.g. high cal verses dolomitic)?

Is the dolomitic softer due to the mag? Does it cure hard eventually?

Thank you in advance!

TahoeBilly


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adminadmin click here to view user rating
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6. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #5
 
high calcium lime putty is usually 90-95% calcium with up to 5% magnesium


dolomitic lime putty is upto 45%+ magnesuum at the expence of calcium

learn fresco at http://FrescoSchool.org

fresco painting video tutorials: http://www.FrescoSchool.com

also visit

Fresco School Video Channel
http://youtube.com/FrescoSchool

Contemporary Fresco Gazette
http://trueFresco.Org
commission fresco or mural http://iLAdesigns.com

admin
____________________________
Contemporary Fresco Painting Resouce Center
http://TrueFresco.com


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willyartist
Member since 14-Apr-05
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15-Apr-05, 05:55 AM (PST)
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7. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #6
 
   hello im fairly new to decorative plasters but ive been a decorative painter just for 10 years.. ive used the kolcaustico and modern masters venetian plaster product line and was happy but not extremely happy because ive seen the lime based plaster looking so much better. so i sought out to make my own plaster. which ive learned alot and happy to say im addicted to this paste. ive tried virginia lime work their so called taditional lime putty but was too sandy then i found graymont dolime which they call their mature lime putty (much finer) and i was wondering how does the low magnesium ratio play apart in the plaster.
roman concrete enthusiast!


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Roger
unregistered user
15-Apr-05, 05:57 PM (PST)
 
8. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #7
 
   I believe that Dolomitic Limes are generally more workable. However, the Magnesium is said to cause efflorescence, which is undesirable if the plaster is coloured. I think the Do lime may also be a little harder as well. I have not used the products you mentioned, but I did make putty from Graymont quicklime. It is now almost one year old and appears smooth, without graininess.


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Gary sculptari
unregistered user
17-Apr-05, 06:54 AM (PST)
 
9. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #7
 
   I also replied elsewhere on the forum.

I just wanted to add that I have been experimenting with magnesium cements - and they much harder than even 100 year old lime. The only problem with the magnesium content is that it can create hard patches in lime plaster - which ONLY creates a problem when the wall is shrinking and contracting (frost and water) and only when magnesium levels are high enough to create this problem (I think 15% has been suggested somewhere). The magnesium is a non-issue - you would have difficulty finding a lime with high magnesium, maybe some agricultural blend (magnesium is wonderful for soil, especially grazing pastures). Efflorescence is not caused by magnesium.

So we are dealing with Calcium Hydroxide - and how, and where, and for what purpose it was calcined becomes the only issue. I was suprised the Graylime was sandy - they add the sand for you?

Check out some of old plaster books at donhead.com if you really want to learn about lime, and lime mortars.


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william meyer
unregistered user
17-Apr-05, 08:21 AM (PST)
 
10. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #9
 
   thank you for your info ... so the magnesium makes it harder ? i made a polishable plaster that is so hard i cant even dig my finger in it or scratch it using the graymonts limeputty i guess theirs is high in magnesium even with one coat floated on it has mottling like stone or venetian plaster and it sticks to previously painted surfaces! i put a first coat to see how it bonded to the surface then plan to polish the 2nd while still wet . i did a sample already and it polishes like glass but u have to polish while wet. im extemely happy with the results. using lime/pozzolan component with 5 percent acrylic resins and dispersing agents. ROMAN CONCRETE! the virginia limeworks was had bits of sands or not ground up enough which scratched the surface. i think the mixture i made can be done on exteriors as well but only time and more experimentation will tell!


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Mitchell Henry
Member since 2-Dec-02
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17-Apr-05, 09:20 AM (PST)
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11. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #10
 
   Very interesting Mr. Meyer. Sounds like you may have a successful recipe going there. It's true that all lime putty plasters, Marmorino, Stucco, etc. need to be polished while they are still somewhat moist. A couple of questions though. You say this plaster sticks to a painted surface... is it an absorbent surface, i.e. with suction or do you atribute it to the acrylic content you added? And, if you don't mind me asking, what the 'pozzolon' component that you used, clay?
Good luck with your new mix.



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willyartist
unregistered user
17-Apr-05, 09:59 AM (PST)
 
12. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #11
 
   hello i live in an old 50s beach house that the walls are plaster but i dont know what kind but unfortunately some walls are painted with your average interior eggshell latex paint and it stuck fine very hard. i attribute the small percent acrylic resin for more binding marble dust for aggregate and ive tried two pozzolans one is pure lassenite from lassen california lake bed diatoms and volcanic ash but it is light brown in color and actually tinted the paste the other is a white pozzolan i found researching on the web that they use for pools. i think the ingredients are a diff type of pozz metakaolin because there is diff types that all create cementious properties with lime or portland cement . mt vesuvius dirt volcanic ash mixed with lime or atown in italy pozzoloui(maybe misspelled) where the name originated. fly ash and metakaolin are the others which all possolans are good for hydrating the front lawn which is next on the agenda haha at least thats what they say about the lassenite. interesting though they used this stuff to make the hoover dam or one of those damns and used for golf courses. aerification .. interesting polishing 1000s of year old fossils mixed with lime and marble dust. i think the white pozz is my best bet and maybe use the darker pozz for darker colors... know of any good limeproof pigments?


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Gary sculptari
unregistered user
17-Apr-05, 03:22 PM (PST)
 
13. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #12
 
   know of any good
>limeproof pigments?

Try kremer-pigmente.com. They have a list of known stable with lime pigments. There are others I have discovered - some pretty exotic - like ground up holographic film, and a beautiful, glow in the dark, swimming pool blue.

White pozzolan sound interesting. Lots of Flyash here - cheap, industrial byproduct, less than portland cement. A light brown color.


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Gary sculptari
unregistered user
17-Apr-05, 03:30 PM (PST)
 
14. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #13
 
   When selling lime finishes professionally.

It is important to emphasise that you are recovering the breathability of the wall. There is an inexpensive ($400?) sandblaster which blasts and vacuums at the same time. Not industrial quality, but enough to remove layers of latex, wallpaper, alkyds. The number one household insurance claim in the USA is over mold, water vapor must be able to flow. An annual lime wash kills molds, bacterias, and probably viruses too - and the whole room smells fresh and clean (unlike other paints)

The second, especially on outside work, is to emphasise that lime finish 'patinates' rather than completely fails. The latexes and alkyds look new - and then fail spectacularly. The lime finishes wear in like an old pair of blue jeans - and some people actually prefer that look

Lime finishes are for those with distinguished tastes, but a good pool of clients should keep you, and your kids, busy for a long time.


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william meyer
unregistered user
17-Apr-05, 08:43 PM (PST)
 
15. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #14
 
   thanks for the info . as far as the walls breathing im sure it would be better to strip all the paint down to plaster but if i put 2 to three coats of lime plaster over whats there would that not be ok .. i guess just this amount of covering would be breathable but wouldnt have the electostatic film that attracts dust like most modern paints but wouldnt be fully breathable with that barrier substrate. professionaly i would strip it in clients home given the same circumstances (having plasters walls like in my home) but i needed to test the binding capabilities over a regular painted surface with my concoction.hehe thanks for the link to kremerpigments website ill have to try theirs. ohh and i was reading about the magnesium marble , sounds interesting!


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Roger
unregistered user
18-Apr-05, 04:31 PM (PST)
 
16. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #15
 
   Your recipe is interesting. I know the old recipe was to use glue, whose purpose I presume is same as the acrylic resin you mention. However, why the use a pozzalanic additive? Do you find that your surface is otherwise too soft? Do you use an aggregate (eg marble dust)? I was planning to try the old recipe (glue/marble dust) in a room once I finish the float coat.


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william meyer
unregistered user
18-Apr-05, 11:49 PM (PST)
 
17. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #16
 
   im trying to \stay with all organic materials but i know with our substrates there has to be some 5 percent binder but i researched the pozzolans they used in roman times and there is many diff types of them specially for pools that make lime or portland cements more cementious / harder especially helping the ozone layer buy adding more organic material with the plaster therefore reducing the amount of carbon released in the atmosphere. so the more recyclable material that s mixed with your plaster actually helps the environment which im trying to achieve especially because i sick of smelling inert gases!!!oil or acrylic but just trying to take vitruvius ideals and just dont take what history gives us but build upon them (using the right and left brain) sorry for getting to remorse! but im a firm believer in recycling. such as the magnesium marble that sculptari relates to that the aggregates used are simple light weight sawdust that achieve the same results.. and 10 times harder interesting but stilll researching ohh and and i used hide glue and it works the same but still finding cheaper distributors and yes just lime and marble dust over our substrates prove to not bind to the wall without glue or acrylic resin because lime plaster is generally trowelled over lime or caustic substrates burning into each layer but the 2nd dna coat proves to give the same mottling affect as so called venetian plaster/ polished stone... the pozzolan/lime chemical reaction is a proven fact just look at the pantheon parthenon i forget in rome still standing .. hey check this out lassenite lassen county california they sent me a free bag of pozzolan tan in color made of 1000 s of year old lake bed fossils and volcanic ash free to test read ther website lime pozz reaction used to make the hoover damn! or fly ash but that black or gray would b good for dark color plaster i would think. anyone interested


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kirsten
Member since 5-Jun-05
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05-Jun-05, 11:36 AM (PST)
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18. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #14
 
   Dear all,

I'm new to this group, and totally fascinated by the posts I've read. I am a professional plasterer with a strong background in earthen materials and I have recently absolutely fallen in love with lime. I am a tech geek with a good understanding of different types of limes, pozzolans and pigments.

But recently I felt very much in over my head. I am doing an interior application of a polished lime finish on a two coat application. First coat 1 : 2.5 lime to plaster sand, second coat 1 : 1 lime to marbledust. I get wonderful color saturations and a readily sealed polished surface. I won't call it tadelakt because it's not made with Morrocan lime, but that is the type of finish for which I am aiming.

Here's the problem: the base coat is spalling off the walls. I was advised by the lime manufacturer (NHL product) to install cement board (Durarock), wet it back to saturation, and apply the base coat directly over it. It adhered well for over a month, but now it is slowly detaching. My best guess is a poor chemical bond to begin with, now exacerbated by daily temperature fluctuations between 90-50 degrees F along the exterior walls. Also, the Durarock is hung 16" OC but not blocked, and still has slight movement.

So now what? I'm looking at demolishing the first installation and starting over. One contractor has suggested expanded metal mesh over the Durarock for a mechanical bond. Another recommends Plaster Weld. I am reluctantly considering adding some portland cement to the base coat, going on the like bonding to like theory. Temperature stress will continue to be an issue in the space; in addition to the two exterior walls, two walls are adjacent to a sauna.

Are there any other lime plaster contractors out there? What experiences have you had with lime renders over Duraroack? Some phots of ILia and other fresco artists show a sort of freestanding "canvas"; I wonder if this is a cement board product?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Cheers,
Kirsten


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Roger
unregistered user
05-Jun-05, 05:14 PM (PST)
 
19. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #18
 
   Hello,
I am not a contractor, but I have worked with Durock on my own project. I made a small attempt at getting lime/sand to attach to Durock, but it separated much as you describe. Later, I covered a substantial portion of Durock with a thin coat of gauged dolomitic lime (to level an uneven surface). Despite substantial temperature fluctuations, this has adhered well, though it has been up for only several months. Of course, portland cement also adheres very well. In general, whenever I mix modern and old materials, I have problems. I suspect that the poor adhesion is, as you say, due to differences in expansion/contraction for your surfaces. If guaged putty is suitable base, you might also consider that over well-saturated Durock, but I do not know how well lime/marble dust would adhere to that.


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adminadmin click here to view user rating
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06-Jun-05, 02:01 PM (PST)
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20. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #18
 
will try to speak for Ian - it's impossible to make him type... (for the ones who does not know who Ian Hardwick is - top fresco plasterer in US 25 years exp. Fresco School's plastering instructor for the last 8 years)

i assume that Durarock is similar to laymen's vocabuary (such as my) known "wonderboard" - that thing is a good for nothing when it comes to lime plasters (you should perhaps tell that manufacturer to staple his mouth shut about lime related advises)

Board has no tooth for the lime to grab (dolomitic lime might somewhat stick but somewhat is not good enough)

you will also have detachment problem if there is too much water in the mix especially if your scratch has cement (too much water will create a slick glaze-like seal)

(sorry for a "short-fuse" looking reply - i just cant stand when due to salesmans ignorance professional people like yourself get into the predicament)

here is the suggestion - you can find your way through it.

1. ideally you put expended metal and scratch over it (backing can be anything - drywall will do)
2 part lime - 1 part cement - 5-6 sand
when it sets hard float a heck out of it to remove the film if any.

2. Float to sand finish with 1 lime to 2 sand (sifted through window screen)

3. skim in two coats wet-in-wet. first coat same as #2 bring to a sand finish and the second one - skim (very thin) coat 1.5 - 2 lime to 2 marble dust.

you can perhaps combine 1. and 2.

you may find it very helpful to make a float like the one on this picture...
http://www.truefresco.com/frescoshop/popup_image.php?pID=37

learn fresco at http://FrescoSchool.org

fresco painting video tutorials: http://www.FrescoSchool.com

also visit

Fresco School Video Channel
http://youtube.com/FrescoSchool

Contemporary Fresco Gazette
http://trueFresco.Org
commission fresco or mural http://iLAdesigns.com

admin
____________________________
Contemporary Fresco Painting Resouce Center
http://TrueFresco.com


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kirsten
Member since 5-Jun-05
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06-Jun-05, 04:39 PM (PST)
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21. "traditional lime over modern substrates"
In response to message #20
 
   Roger & ILia/Ian,

Thanks for your replies. Since I'm financially liable for whatever fix I come up with, I'm going to try to leave the Durarock in place. Maybe I will kick myself for this later, but right now there are two options I want to explore.

1) Durarock coated with Plaster Weld with sharp sand mixed in as a mechanical binder, then lime render and finish coats.
2) Durarock coated with a thinset mortar scratch coat, then lime render and finish coats.

As I was demolishing the base coat today, I found that the lime plaster had adhered quite well to areas of a mortar admix that I'd used to tape the joints between the boards. That observation is the origin of the thinset experiment.

I'm not wild about either of these possible solutions. I'm tending to agree that cement board products are fairly useless. Next time I will start with metal mesh and plywood or greenboard. I'm guessing now that's what I see as the fresco canvases.

I'll let you know how the experiments go.

Cheers,
Kirsten


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adminadmin click here to view user rating
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06-Jun-05, 11:01 PM (PST)
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22. "RE: traditional lime over modern substrates"
In response to message #21
 
well here is "fresco canvas" as you call it
the backing is the OSB board (i've seen one laying under rain and snow on a junk pile for 4 years in NY - strait and nondelaminated as new just gray, ever since then that is the only thing we use...)

learn fresco at http://FrescoSchool.org

fresco painting video tutorials: http://www.FrescoSchool.com

also visit

Fresco School Video Channel
http://youtube.com/FrescoSchool

Contemporary Fresco Gazette
http://trueFresco.Org
commission fresco or mural http://iLAdesigns.com

admin
____________________________
Contemporary Fresco Painting Resouce Center
http://TrueFresco.com


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william meyer
unregistered user
10-Jul-05, 05:58 PM (PST)
 
23. "RE: traditional lime over modern substrates"
In response to message #22
 
   i am new to lime but what ive researched about certain lime based venetian plasters or tadelact is that they used a Quartz primer on the walls for proper adhesion . what type of pozzolans do you use Kristen and do u know where to get a high calcium lime putty for what iam experiencing with dolimes high in magnesium theres effloressence which is no prob with lighter pigments but not when i want a darker venetian plaster. Black or dark reds thanks


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william meyer
unregistered user
10-Jul-05, 06:08 PM (PST)
 
24. "RE: traditional lime over modern substrates"
In response to message #23
 
   Mr Greco what happened with adicolor i am very interested in using there new product Desire` but all i have is a brochure and would like a sample. ive already tried asking star scenic supply but they seem to be somewhat unorganized there. i had good opportunities to sell some to customers but id like to have a physical sample before i buy something for like $100 a liter. maybe would be good in a small bathroom? It seems like a great invention and easy to use.thanks William


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25. "RE: traditional lime over modern substrates"
In response to message #23
 
>i am new to lime but what ive researched
>about certain lime based venetian plasters or
> tadelact is that they used a Quartz primer
> on the walls for proper adhesion . what
>type of pozzolans do you use Kristen and
>do u know where to get a high calcium
>lime putty for what iam experiencing with
>dolimes high in magnesium theres
>effloressence which is no prob with lighter
> pigments but not when i want a darker
>venetian plaster. Black or dark reds thanks

go to:

http://FrescoShop.com for high calsium lime putty

(Calce Florentine, is the name for it there)

learn fresco at http://FrescoSchool.org

fresco painting video tutorials: http://www.FrescoSchool.com

also visit

Fresco School Video Channel
http://youtube.com/FrescoSchool

Contemporary Fresco Gazette
http://trueFresco.Org
commission fresco or mural http://iLAdesigns.com

admin
____________________________
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kirsten
Member since 5-Jun-05
3 posts, Rate this user
16-Jul-05, 08:41 PM (PST)
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26. "RE: traditional lime over modern substrates"
In response to message #23
 
   Greetings William,

Hmmm, quartz in what as a primer? Seems like that would mostly provide mechanical bonding surfaces. I am using a natural hydraulic lime which has had no efflorescence problems. I have tested up to 15% pigment, resulting in very saturated colors with no crazing yet. The maximum pigment load is on my list of things to test. My experience is that successfully achieving the finish has as much to do with your substrate and your application technique as your mix.

The end of my base plaster delamination saga is in sight; the clients have decided on a cement stucco base plaster, and my tests over it look good. Un-kosher, I know, but what else can I gaurantee over Durarock?

Kirsten


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Montana
unregistered user
27-Feb-06, 04:46 PM (PST)
 
33. "RE: Traditional and Modern lime plasters"
In response to message #18
 
   I use velenova from Italy and portland cement 1 to 1
are you using wonderboard for waterproofing or strenth


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maria holden
unregistered user
21-Jul-05, 10:08 AM (PST)
 
27. "Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster"
In response to message #0
 
   If anyone can help - two problems: (1) what do I need to seal my vp with before I use a glaze over it; what is better, water or oil glaze; is the problem that I am attempting to layer an oil glaze over still-damp plaster; should I trowel it before applying the glaze; FYI - I am mixing my own glaze/no premixed products, please; and (2) how about layering fine or coarser vp/marmorino-do I let the first layer dry completely, I assume, before applying the second; and do I then sand back the second coat?

By the way, do I then need to apply a sealer/fixative to (1) or (2)?

Thank you!


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adminadmin click here to view user rating
Charter Member
286 posts, 4 feedbacks, 6 points
24-Jul-05, 10:24 AM (PST)
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28. "RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster"
In response to message #27
 
>If anyone can help - two problems: (1) what do I
>need to seal my vp with before I use a glaze
>over it; what is better, water or oil glaze; is

no difference, really - it is personal preference, certain effects are easier with oil glaze (furniture, wood stain/glazing also a bit better with oil glazes), but last time I glazed with oil was 6 years ago...

>the problem that I am attempting to layer an oil
>glaze over still-damp plaster;

Yes, a big one...

>should I trowel
>it before applying the glaze;

How would you put it on whithout troweling? Did i miss something?

>FYI - I am mixing
>my own glaze/no premixed products, please; and

This is really irrelevant - glaze is just a glue. Artists used to make there own using casein.
I found out that for me Zinzer glaze works the best (you need to add color to it).

>(2) how about layering fine or coarser
>vp/marmorino-do I let the first layer dry
>completely, I assume, before applying the
>second; and do I then sand back the second coat?

Well, this is a complex question, since you can plaster wet-into-wet to obtain multicolored mottled look.

and if you use "true" marmorino products sanding is not needed - you do it (make it flat) with trowel. I did hear that some new products made to need sanding (it is assumed to be easier to apply for make-it-youselfers) but never used those, however these products would have instructions on the label.

But if you are asking about base coat and finish coat then, yes, base coat has to be completely dry before another one goes on.

>
>By the way, do I then need to apply a
>sealer/fixative to (1) or (2)?

You can put the sealer over your final coat - and if you are glazing - glaze would be the sealer.


learn fresco at http://FrescoSchool.org

fresco painting video tutorials: http://www.FrescoSchool.com

also visit

Fresco School Video Channel
http://youtube.com/FrescoSchool

Contemporary Fresco Gazette
http://trueFresco.Org
commission fresco or mural http://iLAdesigns.com

admin
____________________________
Contemporary Fresco Painting Resouce Center
http://TrueFresco.com


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glaze/glue
unregistered user
14-Oct-05, 10:55 PM (PST)
 
31. "RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster"
In response to message #28
 
   i understand they ( the old masters) made their glazes out of out of the natural adhesives in their day casein rabbits skin glue but also with the technology nowadays with acrylic polymers /n acrylic glazes surpass those being glazes that are made to: hold an impression better, slower drying times, and best of all they're water base . . ive used acrylic glazes that work just as well as oil with less the odor but sometimes for woodgraining oil based seems to look better guess it depends if what your working with ...i just love to mix everything though!


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carmine b
unregistered user
13-Oct-05, 06:44 AM (PST)
 
29. "RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster"
In response to message #27
 
   for lime plaster based products, I would LEAVE IT ALONE for at least a week. if it is interior, I would even mist the surface and speed up the carbonation, (spelling??) of the lime. ALLOW it to cure first, then ad the glaze to the surface. That goes for polishing with wax too. Obviously, marmorino is polished wet on the final pass with a trowel but adding anything to the surface, you ought to wait til it is cured, (not so much dried) since natural lime plasters cure, acrylic plasters dry. A dry lime plaster to the touch doesn't mean it is cured.

hope that helps a little


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marmorino
unregistered user
14-Oct-05, 10:44 PM (PST)
 
30. "RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster"
In response to message #29
 
   i think by ading glazes over the plaster enhances the look but i think sealing it wouldnt keep the natural look of patina aged plaster which is the feel your going for anyways and if it is natural lime based plaster why worry about it because its lime and marble it will naturally cure back to its own state just let it breathe! Willy jax fl


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william meyer
unregistered user
17-Oct-05, 08:44 PM (PST)
 
32. "RE: Please help: trouble with glaze over plaster"
In response to message #30
 
   what if you tinted the soap wax


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