If you want to search out lime information online, www.lime.org is a good starting point. This is an international association of lime producers. There is also the trade forum www.limeonline.com. I buy high calcium lime, type "N" from Chemical Lime company, their website www.chemicallime.com Go to the map and find that they have high calcite plants all over the U.S. - contact a sales office to see where the nearest retailer is (US or Canada). There are at least three other lime companies, I am not sure which produce the high calcite lime.

I also have an old publication from the lime association on how to make different whitewash formulas, for different purposes. Email them, or me if you are involved with this. I feel that we should be encouraging the use of lime paints because of their vastly superior environmental qualities. They dropped out of favor purely for economic reasons - why buy a tin when for a little bit of effort you can make it yourself. Again a case where modern is not necessarily better -its just a way to make a quick buck.

Gary,
i am a very srong proponent of using lime and other sensitive material in painting. I specially love lime. A limewashed room is for some reason more comfortable than a room painted with acrylic.
Not only for esthetic reasons.
I would love to have as much recepies as I can gather so feel free to send me yours
I attended a workshop in France last summer. The teacher is a traditional mason and artist. He indeed has his own recepies.
Very interesting.
Myriam

Try to get your own copy from Lime.org. It is an interesting little booklet. If they can't help, then we will work on the problem.

The Kremer website http://www.kremer-pigmente.de/englisch/homee.htm , in the newsletter section, is claiming they have a reproduction of the brush which was used for painting lime and calcimite up to 100 years ago. It is made from vegetable fibers and designed to hold the watery mixtures better than today's brushes. In know of no further information. Is this a brush widely available in Europe? I assume it is a painter's brush, not an artists brush

A french mason would have some good stories and tales. Much of Paris exterior work was actual gypsum plaster - not lime mortar. It was cheaper and faster to slap on some new plaster every couple of years, rather than do a full mortar and cement stucco. The European mortar workers are a whole different world from Canada and the USA.

Hi Gary,
I do not know much about Gypsum being used on building in Paris.
Is that why it is called Paris plaster?
In the country side I am sure lime was widely used.
I do not know that anything has been written on this subject.
May be l' Ecole d'Avignon would tell us more.
I could do some research if you are interested.
I found in France a really big natural hair brush that I use for limewashes.
It can be clipped sideways on top of the bucket for dripping.
It is a very good one but I am pretty sure I have seen the equivalent in catalogs.
Myriam

Gary,
I did not find your publication.
It may be that I have not been able to spot it or it is not there anymore.
Gosh I am sure that this technique is going to resurface.
It has in Europe.
Myriam

Hi Myriam,

Did you actually contact Lime.org. This is free booklet they used to publish -the recipes will be stark without the old black and white drawings etc. If it is no longer available, give me a fax number by private post. Scans are time consuming in email.

I have been in contact with Harry Francis, retired of the National Lime Association. He has told me the booklet is no longer available. Please give a fax number or address by private email and I will send a copy.

Harry has also offered some improvements to the recipes, for example you can use skim milk instead of casein and water, which I will also include. He also kindly advises that formaldehyde is no longer available.

I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning that there is a new lime paint going to hit the market that is anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, anti-viral, yet non-toxic to any higher life forms. He says that it will kill germs but not worms for example. It is interesting that it works by blocking the lime from absorbing CO2. Straight lime is highly anti-germ, until it recarbonates, and then it is as the same as limestone or marble.

Lets share recipes and maybe write a new booklet on whitewash and cold water paints. It is about time someone promoted something which is beautiful and of benefit to the environment. It is still the only paint to use in damp areas such as basements, etc.

Ilia - this booklet is eight 8 1/2" pages, folded in half. Any way you can use it on this site? I could scan.

Gary, why don't you post some recepies from that booklet?
I am sure many people including the author will benefit!

I too would be very interested in seeing the various recipes listed in the book, and the applictions for each of them. I'm still not clear on the advisability of using ANY organic constituent in mix intended for exterior surfaces. Copying a few of the more useful ones into an email or posting here would be a great service.

I'm restoring a 200 yr old springhouse on our farm and just whitewashed one of the walls following the recommendations of the Danish web page on whitewashing techniques. I love the way it turned out and the fact that it is quickly acquiring some "character" of its own (i.e. pollen-laden rainwater running off the tarp causing a lovely yellow stain on my day-old wash job.)

Curt Mason
White House Farm (named for the white color achieved through 200 yr old whitewashing)
Summit Point, wv,, <http://www.geocities.com/cmasonnos/whitehousefarm.html>

Curt,
What is the Danish web page? And where in WV did you purchase lime for your wall?
Myriam

This Forum messes up any attempt I make to reply to you. Please email me for answers to you questions.
cmason@wv.adelphia.net

Thank you

>This Forum messes up any attempt I make to reply
>to you.

Can you be specific? Do you have trouble posting?

Unregistered users can not email members though, unless the member chooses to post the email address in the message. You need to be logged in to take advantage of the forum's features such as email, private message, bookmarking, topic and forum subscribtions, etc., etc.

Well, first of all, I AM a registered member, but your webpage does not recognize me as such, and so far I have not found a link to sign in with. So you keep calling me a "guest", when in fact I've filled out the registration form, and when I try to re-register, you tell me i'm already a member.

Secondly, unlike every other website I've used, when I fill out text massages such as this one on your site, and then click on preview, when I go back to make changes, you do not remember what I've typed in already and I have to rewrite the whole d*%$## thing. , so I'm not a happy camper about that either.

Hope this clarifies things for you.

Curt Mason (MEMBER!!)

>Well, first of all, I AM a registered member,
>but your webpage does not recognize me as such,
>and so far I have not found a link to sign in
>with.
Click on "login" link in the lobby type in your username and password - you will be redirected to the lobby again - you will see all bunch of new icons in the header one of them will be "User Menu" - click on it. You will be directed to user console, below is the list of options for your castom settings

Change your password
Edit your profile
Edit your preferences - click this one
Forum Subscription
Topic Subscription
Bookmarks
Inbox
Buddy list
Scratch pad

Edit your preferences - click this one

On the resulted page select "yes" for the following option

Automatically login when you return?
Select "yes" if you want to be logged on when you return at a later time. This feature will be in effect the next time you login.

(i will work on putting this option back on the login page)

You can also login from http://www.truefresco.com/

So you keep calling me a "guest", when in
>fact I've filled out the registration form, and
>when I try to re-register, you tell me i'm
>already a member.

Do as outlined above and sorry for the inconvinience - with our upgrade registered users have lots of new options so we had to consolidate them in one place.

>Secondly, unlike every other website I've used,
>when I fill out text massages such as this one
>on your site, and then click on preview, when I
>go back to make changes, you do not remember
>what I've typed in already and I have to rewrite
>the whole d*%$## thing. , so I'm not a
>happy camper about that either.

After you hit "preview" there is no need to hit back button - your text is displayed right below the preview
just scroll down and edit.

>
>Hope this clarifies things for you.
>
>Curt Mason (MEMBER!!)

Sorry again for inconvinience, however upgraded forums give much more functionality for registered users than ever before. 10-15 min of reading FAQ and exploring "user menu" and You will be saying - "This forum software Rocks!"

admin

Click on "login" link in the lobby type in your username and password - you will be redirected to the lobby again - you will see all bunch of new icons in the header one of them will be "User Menu" - click on it. You will be directed to user console, below is the list of options for your castom settings
Change your password
Edit your profile
Edit your preferences - click this one
Forum Subscription
Topic Subscription
Bookmarks
Inbox
Buddy list
Scratch pad

Edit your preferences - click this one

On the resulted page select "yes" for the following option

Automatically login when you return?
Select "yes" if you want to be logged on when you return at a later time. This feature will be in effect the next time you login.

Thanks for the prompt reply. HOwever, as with the Preview page, this procedure does not remember what I did. I followed you instructions to the letter, but each time i clicked UPDATE, it went back to the original settings, not the ones I had just changed, such as automatic login.

Maybe I'll come back here in a couple of months after you get some of these nagging bugs solved. I must respectfully disagree: This software does NOT rock,, nor roll, nor do anything but frustrate the user.

Bye

It is fixed.

There is no need to be rude.

hello

Myriam (and others). The Danish webpage that describes in great detail the formula and application for "limewash" is http://www.raadvad.dk/7_0/7_2_4.html

I use masonry lime (hydrated fine poweder) available at any building supply store.
And I've had great success with using only one thin coat of whitewash over stone to arrive at an appearance that allows some of the character of the stone to come through, i.e. not a solid white wall as you would get with paint or several coats of whitewash.
Check out the following site for an example: <http://www.geocities.com/cmasonnos/whitehousefarm1.html>

Thank you very much for the link to the
Danish web page. It is a wonderful site with traditional paint recepies and other building craft advice. I am not done studying it!
I think it is ok to use dolomitic lime for limewashes but I do not think that the purists fresquists on this site would approve of it.
Myriam;-)

Hi Myriam!

Relatively short "life expectancy" for the lime wash, makes no difference if the lime you use has high magnesium content (as dolomitic lime would)

Glad to see you active!

Ooops,

since that post was made in 2001 I've changed my web address. Go to <http://whitehousefarmwv.org/whitehousefarm.html> to see our latest work with whitewash, where we sprayed/rolled and brushed the material onto our 30ft high, 14ft diameter silo. It looks great in full sun, but unfortunately, as noted elsewhere in this forum, on rainy or cloudy days you can see the concrete stave background pretty easily. But is stuff IS fun to work with and once we get our stone barn restored, we plan to whitewash it just like the old Scots-Irish farm buildings at the Museum of Frontier Culture in Staunton, VA <http://www.frontiermuseum.org/>

I would appreciate any information about the receipts for lime in painting.

thanks

Jack White
zoomer12@juno.com
fax 304-295-7815

Jack
Limewash recepies are pretty simple after you have been able to sort out which lime you you want or are able to purchase, and which ground is actually appropriate for limewashing.
Suppose you have the answers to these two problems then you will find yourself with either a powdered lime or a lime putty.
If the lime is dry it is a good idea to convert it to lime putty first and let it sit for a couple of days or more. At this stage the putty will last a very long time provided that it is stored in a closed container.
Then all you have to do is to mix the putty with water until it looks like milk. You can add pigments to the mixture if you want colors in your limewash. Choose a lime proof pigment. All earth pigments are lime proof and make beautiful colors. I can tell you more about that if you need.mix the pigment thoroughly with water to make a paste before you incorporate it in the limewash.The amount of pigments can only be a fraction of the volume of lime putty, or it will not be binded.
To paint the walls you will need a big heavy brush such as the ones that are used to glue wallpaper. You may be able to find one that is specially designed for this purpose. Do not forget that lime is caustic to brushes. Rinse your brushes very well after use and wash them with soap.
For more binding power in your limewash you add casein or make your limewash with skim milk.
If you want your lime wash to be more waterproof and sturdier you can add a fraction of linenseeds oil.
Lime wash is very flexible and could be used as a base for all kind of paint recepies. In France they are paints on the market which are a combination of lime and acrylic. I would not go that route because it defeats the whole purpose of using lime which is (on top of beauty, bacteriacidal properties and the lack of negative environmental impact) to allow breathability. Also a plain limewash has a powdery look that is sort of taken away if we add synthetic resins.
A lime/ linen oil combination is also less powdery but it feels right and it is a good choice for a bathroom.
A lime / casein combination stays powdery and had enhanced adhering power.
Do not forget that no limewash will "stick" to a wall that is not porous (looks darker when you wet it) and you should always wet your surface before you limewash it!
I hope it helps. You will find more info browsing through this site or the limeonline site.
Myriam

Hello, I'm quite thrilled to have found such and
interesting,usefull site with knowledgabe and
helpful members

I'm a new member and new-ish to using lime. I am
quite intrigued with lime for decorative as well
as fine art purposes. My qestions are both about
lime washes as well as lime plaster.

I have had some resonable success in making up simple
colored lime washes that I have used to paint my apt
in NYC and a recently acquired 1860's greek revival
house in Columbia Co. NY.

I have proceeded in a sort of seat-of-the pants fashion
for the past year and I am now ready to take it a bit
more seriously.

1. I would love to get a (faxed or otherwise)
copy of the booklet containing the limewash
recipes.
2. I have seen mentioned that linseed oil can
be added to a lime wash to make it a bit more
resistant to abrasion. If so should it be raw
or boiled and what amount (roughtly)
3. Are there recipes for making an exterior paint

I have started experimenting with lime plaster and, as
you would expect had some suprising failures as well
as some resonable successes. Your posts regarding
making lime putty from hydrated lime have confirmed
some of what i have found experimentally. But I have
a number of questions.

Since i have mostly been patching and skim coating I
have been slaking and mixing smaller amounts of
material (about 5gl. bucket at a time). I have let
the Type N lime slake about a week before using it
and then scooping out a couple of "gobs" and working
it with a trowel into a smooth and creamy paste. To
this I have done everything from adding nothing (bad
idea) to mixing in sand, marble dust and plaster of
paris in various combinations and percentages. Most
of the problems I have had were cracking and in some
cases the cracked dried plaster fell off the wall.

I had settled on a mix of 2 parts general purpose sand
to 1 part lime and added 1 part marble dust. This
seemed to work, stuck to the wall (old plaster and
painted brick) and dried hard. I let this dry for a
few days and then would skim it with a mix of equal
part marble dust and lime. I found that if I sprayed
a fine mist of water on to the drying plaster I was
able to mimimize the cracking. (I dont know if this
is a good idea or is just a compinsation for some
else I am doing wrong)

Based on what I have read on the forum it seems that
the mixes I am using are not to far off what is
recomended.

In general I have two types of questions. The first
are regarging the mixes. Is a 2:1 or 3:1 sand to
lime putty ratio a good one for a general purpose
base coat (scratch or brown) and is there any point
to adding marble dust to this. What a good ratio
for a finish coat, is this where I should add the
marble dust. Do I need to add plaster of paris
(how much) and is guaging plaster another name for
plaster of paris.

Secondly, how much water do i need in the mix. I have
tried adding none and after a lot of working of the
mix with a trowel got a nice plastic consistancy only
to have it dry to an unusable crumbly mess before I
got all the material off the hawk. Should the plaster
be gooey and a little loose on the hawk and workable
on the wall for some time or should it be firm on the
hawk and set up on the wall rather quickly. Can the
plaster be wetted down a little after it set to a firm
paste. Is it when the plaster has set to a firm paste
that it should be trowled to a fine finish (and how
do you do that?).

I'm sorry for the long post I have been working
in the dark and as you can imagine I have a lot of questions.

Thanks

Michael

Plaster of paris and lime plaster do not mix - properties are different.

Are you applying your plaster onto a dry wall?

I have "wetted" the wall quite a bit before applying
the plaster. I usually let the water soak in and
then wet it again.

I have only tried using plaster of paris once. Most
of the time I add sand or marble dust. I have seen
mention of adding "hair" to the mix. Do people really
do this?

I am trying to build a basic level of experience with
plaster before I move on to fresco. So, any advice
or reccomendations on mix precentages and consistancy
and finishing techinque would be most helpful.

I will look at the online lime organizations today.

Thanks

>Plaster of paris and lime plaster do not mix -
>properties are different.
>
>Are you applying your plaster onto a dry wall?

HUH! This board is getting wierder all the time, first you insist on telling me to paint dark to light, now plaster doesn't mix with lime!! What do do you think half the houses/buildings in Europe and North America are made with?

Plaster is the perfect companion to lime because it slightly expands, whereas lime shrinks. Plaster cures quickly, lime cures slowly - so you can balance the plasticity and long working times needed for specialty and decorative finishes. Both are brilliant white, and easily pigmented (although lime can effect some pigments). White cement, a fairly new material, is also a material for lime but it shrinks like the lime - so sand has to be added

Lime whitewash is fairly durable, the recipes add things like calium chloride, etc, to improve its durability in running water. Limewash continuely adapts and passes through water vapor, where as latex, acrylic, alkyd form a fairly weak skin - which easily peels off when it is unable to adapt to changes in the substrate. The main reason that lime wash is applied every year is for its antibacterial, antifungal effect - plus it freshens up any where with its flat, bright color and nice smell (fresh corn torillas!). The villages of Greece, which have been whitewashed every year for generations, have built up a thick, tough hide of calcium carbonate, which is harder than limestone or marble.

>light, now plaster doesn't mix with lime!! What
>do do you think half the houses/buildings in
>Europe and North America are made with?
>

Oops..., I should have specified that I am talking about fresco plaster (Michael mentioned that he followed instructions for fresco plaster)...

and about dark to light - wait for the article on that, we will post it here in a few days.

hello Sculptari im new to this site and i read that u make ur own high calcium lime putty. are you selling some or so you know where i can order some? ive tried graymonts and virginia limeworks experimenting with roman concrete grassello plaster using the lime/pozzolan chemical reaction with less than 10 percent acrylic admixtures for more binding properties is this still considered a good venetian plaster thank you
william

I just was lucky to find a local supplier, in Vancouver, Canada. It is also a 'classified' lime which goes through an air curtain, any granules or small chunks (most likely magnesium) are separated out.

I am evolving towards what I would call 'architectural fresco' . This does not require giornatas or long settime time. This is the making and decoration of domes, cornices,etc., without the 'saints and sinners' but rather by effective decorative motives. The plastering techniques are equally as important as the painting.

You seem to have a sophisticated sense of plaster. The only reason the acrylic is there is to help the plaster stick to a non-fresh plaster surface. Venetian plaster, in its purest form, is a lime plaster which has been pigmented with crushed marble for color. It will take a high polish, just by using the trowel in the final hardening stages. To preserve the polish, in dusty climates, a wax was put on the surface, and you would occasionally wax the walls as you would wax furniture. The pozzolans would result in a much harder plaster, say for hallways, schools, etc.

thank you and i hope u dont mind me asking if i can get more info or link to their website sounds like the lime putty i need. yes i added the acrylic resin for that purpose because of the most common substrate here drywall and paint and i acquired a tub of spatula stuhhi savon d`eau soap wax and been experimenting with that but im sure ill be buying some other product online when irun out seeing that u have to be a certified applicator to use theirs.can diff color marble flour tint the plaster im looking for a good lime proof pigment ive heard safracolors are the best gut i dont want to ship from over seas. i found this milk paint online that hase lime and casein in it so u think i can add this to my mix because it makes sense for me to have lime proof pigment and natural binder .. sorry my typing skills need help thanks for info

The local lime is from Chemical Lime co - they are all over Canada and the U.S. It costs about $10 a bag! The company has a tech support lady who seems to know about fresco.

The problem with plastering over drywall is twofold - the weight can be too much and the walls are never flat. A plastered wall - using plumb bobs, screeds, and a darby is as flat as a billiard table and as shiny as a slab of granite. A proper polished plaster finish looks like polished stone - but is about 1/2 the price (25 cents a sq ft.)

Architectural lime finishes was combine three trades - lathing, plastering and painter. It is actually the lathers who are hard to find these days.

For pigments - kremer-pigmente.com - NY office.

Hello Gary;

I've been following this discussion with great intertest since I discovered this website a few weeks ago. I'm a film maker based in Vancouver and I've been documenting the creation of a massive "true" fresco, not a trompe l'oeil, for over a year. I think you'd be interested in seeing its progress. How do I get hold of you?

Cheers
JohnT

I'll give you my cell phone number. I change it every couple of years. 778-227-5858. I am working Georgia & Granville - restoring the Vancouver Block back to 1911 - if you want some cool photos - let me know soon.

Is this Fr. Dunston's work? or did Valentino finally get off his butt?

>I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning that there
>is a new lime paint going to hit the market that
>is anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, anti-viral, yet
>non-toxic to any higher life forms. He says that
>it will kill germs but not worms for example. It
>is interesting that it works by blocking the
>lime from absorbing CO2. Straight lime is highly
>anti-germ, until it recarbonates, and then it is
>as the same as limestone or marble.

Any news on this? Is it available yet?