Don't let these tools and terms mislead you. This is not complicated or expensive, it is merely properly preparing the job and is a skill easily learned. Once learned, it will be as easy as using a compass to draw a circle. I have also found, contrary to popular wisdom, that it is your eyes that are the first thing to go as you age! I now have to trust a plumb bob for a straight line - a plasterer works by measurement, not by sight. A painter works by sight. An artist works by vision. You can wear all three hats if they fit, just make sure you know how each is separate.

I am writing on behalf of a group of professional artists who live in the Hamilton, Ontario area. I understand from Ilia Anossov that you live in Canada. In a reply to my request for a source of aged lime putty, she said we could order it through her, at a fair expense due to our being in Canada. She suggested that we contact you as you might be able to help us secure a source more feasible and economical. We appreciate her suggestion and are hoping to hear back from you.

Thank you,

Homer Moelchert

Ilia Anossov (my bio and stuff through the link below)

http://www.truefresco.com/anossov

I think fresco has been dead and buried for a long time, it has taken some curious types to dig up the corpse for re-examination.

In Vancouver, with a population about 2 million, there are only three people who could carry on a conversation about fresco. Just yesterday I heard I heard Debbie Travis (one
of the TV painting gurus (Painted House program))say, that she used a lot of "fresco" in her own house in Montreal but did not use plaster because it was too expensive and that she doubted that there was anyone in Canada who could do real fresco.

One of the big problems with fresco is that it conflicts with modern interiors, in its heyday, there was very little furniture or mass produced decor. My own strategy is to reintroduce fresco as an art which can go outdoors, in gardens, patios, swimming pools, etc. The main difference is to add white cement instead of plaster. I had some concerns about weatherability, have had pieces out in open weather for over a year - but I am now finding
that people actually prefer their fresco to look weathered and beatup!

I appreciate your passion about the art and am happy to have found someone who shares that passion with me. I agree with you about the almost lost art of buon fresco. I am a researcher and teacher of decorative painting techniques in the US. And I too, get dismayed with the overuse of the use of the word "Fresco" in the faux finishing arena. In each of my classes I show a true, buon fresco piece which I have done, and explain the technique used to create such masterpieces as the Sistine Chapel & the Last Supper.

We must remember that buildings in Europe are made to breathe and it is common practice to use natural, breathable products like lime plasters and lime-based paints. In North America we value airtight buildings and discourage walls that breathe - thus we favor synthetic plasters, drywall, and plastic/rubber paints. Therefore, we must also remember that people like Debbie Travis are doing faux techniques with products most liked by and available to her audience. Albeit, some people perform these imitations better than others, but the Americanized faux techniques are representations of techniques done for centuries in Europe. I agree with you about the luminosity of buon fresco, but some might argue that the masters perhaps would use today's products if they had been available to them.

It is up to people like us to educate the public about these old techniques and foster their perpetuation in classical form. It is my goal to pass on techniques learned from master stuccotori to my students so they will value and appreciate these as I do and pass them on to future generations. I will quote you, if I may, to future students. Your candid statements are a wonderful, concise introduction to any workshop on plaster techniques.

Best Regards,
Rebecca E. Parsons

I've enjoyed reading your posts as well as Gary's on this subject. And yes, Decorative art on the walls WERE in place of furniture for many buildings since furniture was not as readily available as now.

Also, I always thought that not only the breathability and carbonization add to the "luminosity" of the fresco, but that buon fresco was executed because, at the time most frescoes were painted, natural colour pigments would fade or erode, or deteriorate under climate conditions. That by locking in the colour with the plaster, an artist could assure that their work would stay true and intact. Secco fresco, as beautiful as it is, can deteriorate over time and weather conditions. Am I correct in this? I would like some opinions from others,....)

I do agree that if the "Masters" had the resources we have now for painting all kinds of art, frescoes, faux finishes, etc., ...that they would use what was at their disposal, and worked best for them. Of course, we will always have purists who will use only what is traditional. A good thing since we can learn from them. But we will always have those who use unconventional means as well to obtain great art. After all, Michealangelo was considered a renegade at the time for painting scenes and the human figure in a more fluid way than the stoic approach so popular before him.

that's it for now, I do enjoy these forums, please tell everyone you know about them. There are not many sites I know of such as this.

Ciao
Carter Averbeck
www.TrompeArt.com

gloria the steel factory may have closed down, but fresco will never die.........

Hi Joe!

You have the whole Modern Fresco Gallery at your disposal (over 350 pages) -
http://www.truefresco.com/index1.html
with many images and links to other fresco sites

or start at the main page of this site

http://www.truefresco.com

Be aware, however, tht it can be very dangerous for the complete amateur to do this.

Please post a message when you can - I'll be back in college on thursday.

You can e-mail me directly on sueatrainbowflatv@yahoo.com.

enjoy your day wherever you are.

I am a plasterer too! I was a sculptor and moldmaker first, and then got better, and better at plaster.

A fellow Englishwomen shares your love of the lime -Jocasta Innes, and she wrote a book in 1995 called "Applied Artistry". Unfortunately she is a painter, and tries, unsuccessfully, to duplicate plaster finishes with paint. There are many other books I can recommend, but on an apprentice budget you should be able to find this one in the library, used, or as a "remainder" at a book shop. You won't regret the search.

The Victorian era saw the introduction of molds(gelatin molds), to the plaster trades. In older times all the fine plasterwork was mostly hand modelled with lime putty/plaster/sand (stucco & gesso). The use of molds first of all lost a lot of detail from the modelled pieces, second of all, fell in the hands of the unskilled and greedy, and thirdly, caused the use of 100% gypsum plaster moldings (for speed) which gave plaster the reputation of being weak, fussy and difficult to repair. Almost all plasterwork in America is of this method. The old plaster artists such as George Bankart died out, and then ornamental plaster died out. You can tell I am not a fan of Victorian plaster - the introduction of "improved industrial techniques" killed a tradition which survived thousands of years until that point.

You will have to visit Harwicke Hall, there is a lot of English lime stucco plaster there from the 15th (??) century- still standing stronger and harder than real marble. Also search out "The Lime Centre" somewhere in England, and on the Web.

I'm glad you're feeling better now.

You'll be pleased to know that I know about Millar's book, not to mention a few others! I know about jelly moulds etc. I just wish I was more butch rather than the girly I am so I could plaster better. I know about English Heritage's book on limes - I read that one a couple of years ago.
Thanks for your reply and support - must dash now - I've got to go to plastering class now.

best wishes

Suzie

I have been puzzling over your comment that you are "too girly" for plaster - do you mean the physical side, it IS often heavy work. I work with lots of women on construction crews, never witnessed too much attitude problems, but it does exist. Many of the trades here now work 10 to 12 hour days, that does take a toll on anyone. Many work only part of the year, and look after their health for the rest. After a while, you get like those ancient rock stars - it takes six months of getting in shape enough to work for six months!

Have you visited Sister Lucia's fresco website, http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/6304/fresco/feminine.html where she discusses "The feminine and fresco creation"? She successfully argues that women have a knack for fresco because they are nurturing by nature, and that fresco demands this nurturing.

This lime putty issue can become very complicated or it can be very simple. I choose simple. Pure lime is 100% calcium hydrate, it will cure to 100% calcium carbonate. Unfortunately, other than maybe pharmaceutical grade, there is no 100% pure. This chemical truth does not matter what rocks (dolomite or marble) the lime was made from - it all comes down to the numbers. I asked the different lime companies for their data and advice, there are many (do a web search). In the Northwest a prominent one is Chemical Lime Co. (they are also on the web). They make a product called "Classified" lime, or "Type N" lime, a "high calcite" lime. This lime has been sifted through a air curtain so the particles are more uniform. If I remember correctly it is over 98% pure calcium. The more common "type S" lime, available at nearly every brickyard is slightly less pure and more likely to have some "grits" in it. Both limes are suitable for fresco and much purer than anything that existed in the old world. They might, however, be different in how they spread out. I am used to "Type S", it spreads like soft butter. (by the way, i may have transposed type N and S, I am doing this from memory - not my strongest faculty!)

So what do these "exotic" ingredients cost. I can buy a fifty lb sack of "Type N" lime for $8 (cdn) at a brickyard/stucco supplier. Or I have to go direct to the "mill" for the classified, where I pay $5 a bag. For our purposes, you have to pour the powder through a flyscreen type mesh into a new trashcan with water in it.This helps prevent lumps when you mix it with a stucco mixing paddle and heavy duty electric drill. Let this soak at least 24 hours, I think the Italians say "it must be kissed by the moonlight". Unfortunately, you have to screen the fresh putty one more time before you use it for fresco, making sure there are no little "pips" of unhydrated lime. These are the instructions for a first class job, for very little money. Some lime suppliers sell drums of putty already slaked and seived - I have not seen their lab reports. The one ingredient to avoid for frescos which are to go outdoors is magnesium - it expands slightly different than calcium and used to cause problems in the early 1900's. I doubt if you could find any of this crappy lime today. By the way, when you are at the stucco yard, buy a bag of "00" size white dolomite sand and some "hyrib" mesh. I buy pure white marble sand, quite coarse, from a stone supplier. If you bought a used drill, you would be setup to do 100s of sq. yds. of fresco for under $100. Pigments, are much trickier, I recommend Kremer or Sinopia. There are companies selling concrete pigments. I think I mentioned previously that I purchased Warm Golden Yellow Ochre from Sinopia and the found Davis brand concrete color to be exactly the same and half the price. But these earth pigments are generally inexpensive anyways.

I use white concrete, at $23 (cdn) per bag,to give early strength to a fresco, it is used mostly in the first or scratch coat. The problem is that I feel, buy do not know, that it reduces the absorbtion of the fresco. I have used some on intonaco for simple frescoes, and have used simple putty and sand on the intonaco, both seemed to work well but I do not really have enough experience to make this conclusion. I also feel that ultimately, lime will cure much harder than if adding white cement, but this would take many, many years.

Hope that this helps more than it confuses.

the other question is.....for this big piece i am doing.....is the only reason not to do it onto a piece of mdf with metal lath tacked onto it vs just onto the reinforced hy rib method because of weight?

these questions could go forever!!!!

thanks again!!!
karla

You know that originally Michelangelo, mainly known as a sculptor, had a battle getting his work done in buon fresco. His adversary was Sebastiano, who wanted oil. Michelangelo is reported to say "oil painting is a woman's art and only fit for the lazy and well-to-do people like Fra Sebastiano"

And for the record, I am more widely known as a sculptor/moldmaker than as a ornamental plasterer. Most of my work is commercial in nature, I build, and often improve, things which other people design.

I think there are two potential problems.

The first is that lime putty/marble (as in the intonaco) behaves very differently from a concrete mixture. I can keep a premixed intonaco in a no airspace, sealed bucket for a long time. Concrete, on the other hand must be used that day, although it can be "retempered" one time only(remixed to make it soft again) after it first starts to set in a couple of hours. The lime putty in this concrete mix is only to help mix the sand and cement together. The mix is approximately one part dry cement, three parts clean, sharp sand, and one quarter part lime putty, and a splash or two of water. As far as cost goes - it is minimal. I previously recommended a "spinner paddle drill" but you could also use a large container and hoe or shovel - a "cement mixer" is for making a pourable mix, not like we use in fresco (it is weaker). There is a 'false' set within the 24 hours -don't let it fool you - the piece is not hard enough to move around - this will take three days, try to keep the piece damp. The only way to change this is to use a quick set cement, which is more expensive, to get a workable set in one day. There are also lightweight aggregates (perlite, vermiculite) - do not use them - they are too weak.

The second problem is the size of the piece you are making. This piece will weigh about 80 to 100 lbs when finished. If this seems high, without the mesh (at equivalent strength) at 2 inches thick, it would weigh 4 times that amount! So this piece will need a steel reinforcement at right angles to the direction of the hyrib - otherwise it may bend when you are moving it around. What I have been doing is waiting for the first coat to cure, I fasten 3/4" galvanised steel "channel" bar with holes drilled throough the mesh and concrete, using stainless steel bolts (about one inch long). A piece this size will need two, probably three bars.

The method I recommend is to put the hyrib rib side down on a flat table, with a sheet of plastic underneath. The concrete should not be "runny" but stiff, the drier the better but it has to stick together when you trowel it and each grain of sand should be covered in cement/lime. You are to fill the mesh until it is about 1/4 inch over the mesh - it should look like a big solid slab, trowel right the concrete right through the mesh. The outside edges should be no more than 1/2 inch away from the edges of the mesh. After it is has cured, and the bars attached (they are great for attaching the hanger straps - I use aircraft braided wire with cramps - like the sailboat rigging), take a skim coat of the same color concrete, and finish what will be the back of your fresco which will not be fully filled because of the mesh. This may not be necessary for large panels, but for small panels, where you are getting a premium price, people always look at the back, so you have to make it professional as possible. I scratch in my logo, etc., but will probably make a rubber mold of a nicer logo, to cast right into the concrete.

Once you have a collection of meshed slabs, various sizes, etc., the rest is easy, and fun. Making the slabs is the chore of the whole process, but a couple of days concentrated work can make a lot of slabs. Within a couple of months you will have arms and abs of steel (or lime concrete?) - sure to impress your artistic comrades. The alternative is limit yourself to commissioned murals, a very hard market to crack as other frescoists on this list can attest. There is also good possibility that you can get a local concrete company to make up these slabs for you at a fair price.

I promise you once you have gone through your first batch of slabs you will be hooked on fresco forever.

Yoram

The hyrib mesh is like expanded metal mesh except that it has heavy grooves 3/8 inch or 3/4 inch, which stiffens the mesh. This allows us to do away with the plywood part - a plywood to stand up outdoors, marine plywood, is quite expensive even in this part of the world. Unfortunately, the grooves only run in one direction, so that is the purpose of attaching another piece along the back. I make a batch of slabs, even small 6 inch by 6 inch panels out of scrap mesh - you never know when you might use them.

I should also mention that there is precast fiber reinforced cement "board" for using in showers, etc. It is available in many hardware stores, it should be strong enough for fresco, is about 3/8 inch thick, and is a light grey color. If well soaked, it might be good for portable panels. I don't know exactly how they cut it - I would use a masonry blade in rotary power saw.