I just checked the site and noticed your reply,I thought the mb had died, I am in N.Ireland.

Ed

Hi Ed,
we are here - not dead. Scagliola as an art form, however, breathing with a difficulty so as fresco. This is why we maintain and improve this site. Unfortunately without people like you it is not easy. So please post more - your techniques, pictures (you can upload pics and post them in your message as an attachement - images will post within the message as a sample pic I have posted). If our content grows - the conversations will improve and become more useful for everybody. So please refer this site to your friends and colleagues.

Also we have started an Image Database at
http://www.truefresco.Net and as database grows it is promoted to arch/des/developers etc.

The idea of this site is to give more and more exposure to people like yourself - professionals and aspiring craftsmen artists of this noble techniques

PS. log in and go to the "user's menu" and edit your subscription preferences - this way you will not miss posts to the topics you select.

It will make sense to register and subscribe to the forums of your interest. This way you will be notified when someone posts via email.

If you have any articles on scagliola it would be great if you can post them here.

ilia

Ed Micca
edmicca@yahoo.com

Could you please send me your web site address. I am interested in marmorino and scagliola.
Thank you

I emailed the people who left their email addresses no reply,please do not bother now.

Yes I have learnt a lot about scag would have liked to have shared ideas etc but alas people are not willing to participate in what was a good forum.

Is this because many find that the plaster arts are a little more complicated than they first thought? All I can say is you get out more than you give in, it is a wonderful field of art to be in.

Hi Ed!

Sorry if I have missed your email - I get hundreds a day... Lately my reply is - go to the forums and post there I will post the reply rightaway - no email.

>I emailed the people who left their email
>addresses no reply,please do not bother now.
>
>Yes I have learnt a lot about scag would have
>liked to have shared ideas etc but alas people
>are not willing to participate in what was a
>good forum.

You included... your last post is what a year ago?!

>Is this because many find that the plaster arts
>are a little more complicated than they first
>thought? All I can say is you get out more than
>you give in, it is a wonderful field of art to
>be in.

Totaly agree, also I find that for some reason people are shy to post. What are they thinking? Someone will laugh?

PS. What was your question that I have missed?

ilia

I think too many people are worried about giving away their secrets, which if the truth be known there are very few that are worth keeping.

I asked about the problems with dolomite, as Gary mentions using it in his posts and you do not recommend it. Ilia you did say when I posted my question on Dec 20 2000, that you would explain more, I'm still waiting lol.

But here it goes again:

Dolomitic lime results in a lot of magnesium in the putty. And it is so - it smells tastes and feels slightly different, so it is not just "molecular" difference. Magnesium makes plaster to be more "plastic", but that is a choice for people who know little. Also magnesium plasters preferred for commercial plaster/stucco applications where speed is the issue, or for uncolored ornamental plasterwork.

For color magnesium is not a friend gives fluorescence spots, poor adhesion of the color layer, etc. Also magnesium has longer hydrating time. Any lime stone will produce some magnesium (high calcium lime contains upto 7% of magnesium - dolomitic has over 30%)

In the past burning of the limestone has little control over the temperature throughout the load therefore resulting quicklime was impure. Aging the lime for 10+ years in the pit was needed to properly hydrate every bit of it. Modern technologies produce more consistent burning therefor 2-4 years in the pit is sufficient.

I am not at liberty to say - professional secret, you know... (just joking).

Anyway, i am not an expert in colored plasters and my explanation applies to fresco painting where the color layer creates or can be compared with calcium saturated, bounded surface crust. When pigment is mixed into the plaster itself poor adhesion is not an issue, however you may still have fluorescence.

About frustrating - you are correct that is not exactly the word. More likely "philosophical" in the matter of: when and will I be able to keep up with postings. The site is alive and growing fast.
Have you checked our Fresco Workshop Program at
http://frescoschool.com ?
we already have international students.

we are also rearanging content into Channels to be more accessable, check Fresco Channel at:

http://www.truefresco.com/channel_fresco.html

perhaps the fact that our site is so easy to find - top ten in every search engine for any fresco related search as well as it's size make people feel that the discussion is "too public" - you do not see rock concert crowds in the public library, but there are millions of libraries and only one "fresco library" - TrueFresco.com - we are pritty much it or strive to be... So the crowds will be here - our stats: 1996 - 2000 page views per month and in 2002 - 200,000 page view per month. So people are "snooping around" we just have to make them talk. Interested to help?
Scagliola topic is wide open...

ilia

I use modroc as a simple base to work on.

I put it on a wooden base such as mdf, when it's wet I smooth it out, into the wet plaster I would either embed thread in a random pattern or lightly score out a pattern. To make things interesting coloured plaster can be dropped onto the still wet modroc base and trowelled in to make a smooth surface, no more than two colours as the white of the plaster will make three colours in total.

If I get really adventurous I would print a reverse copy of a simple painting onto ordinary A4.

In simple I mean something with a strong un-complicated pattern. When the plaster is wet and smoothed I place the print face down unto it and carefully smooth it out, the image is transferred into the plaster. I lightly score around the outlines following the image on the plaster.

After either method I let the plaster dry:Remove the pieces of thread and a random out line like a marble design if done right is there. The image if used is there the outline can now be filled in with coloured plaster, I use herculite hardcoat, I mix the dry pigment first and then add water. I fill the lines with the coloured plaster which highlights the design.

Image transfer:
It can be left like this or as I do the coloured body of the plaster can be strengthened. I use frisket to mask of the areas I do not want touched. The area to be covered is dampened, I mix up the coloured plaster and float it onto the areas I want it.

I would make up a mix of hardcoat and marble dust 60-40 this allows the plaster to be polished. I know the plaster alone can also be polished, but I get better results using the mix.

The procedure is repeated until all the areas are finished and polished, care has to be taken when masking an a polished are so the plaster is not ripped up while removing the frisket. I use wax to protect and increase the shine.

Cheaters fresco
Another method I have used with good success is transferring an image onto lime putty and marble dust plaster, trowelled over a mdf base. I have printed some images in reverse and carefully laid down the page on the wet plaster, gently smoothed out the page, the image transfers almost immediately.

I have three small works in the shed exposed to direct sunlight etc and the image has not faded.
Ilia's image in his above posts is perfect to try for the fresco method, hope I don't cause offence recommending this.

I hope this helps some one to try fresco and scag, I use the above as an introduction, to encourage me to learn more and try out ideas, they are simple techniques based on the principle of some of the real methods.

"In simple I mean something with a strong un-complicated pattern. When the plaster is wet and smoothed I place the print face down unto it and carefully smooth it out, the image is transferred into the plaster. I lightly score around the outlines following the image on the plaster."

Print - do you use regular "printer print"?

Can you post some images of the finished and "in-progress pieces?

ilia

I use ordinary printer inkjet,for fresco wait until the plaster is ready for painting and carefully apply the printed image. I would also use the outline of images for the cartoon. I do this on small 8"*6" tiles of scag.

This is just for my own use, but I thought you might be interested in it. I will make up more and post the images.

Ed

Thanks.

Please do!

Another scagliola addict from france.
I have ony just begun doing scagliola as a sequel to a stucco marble course.
None of you seem to be using the stuff i have been taught to use and this might explain some of the wee problems I have been having. I know of no one around me who does scagliolla and would appreciate an exchange of tips and idaes.
I have fallen in love totally with thiw medium. I did like molding stucco marble pieces, but I think this is the channel I will follow if I can solve some of the setbacks I have been meeting.

I hope this time my message will post! Last time it had some sort of error.

I like to do a marbled Venetian Plaster that resembles Scagliola. I developed a method to do it fairly easily after much trial and error. You can see some examples on my website at www.TravertineDesignStudio.com.

The photos with the 4 columns next to each other, and the three columns below it are examples of a marbled effect that is done only with troweling. This makes the marbled look relatively quick to accomplish. I did the column that is behind the chair with a painted method. That was very tedious and time-consuming to complete, which is why I wanted to find a better way to accomplish a marbled look.

I've been asked to teach my method, so I'm planning to start classes in February. If anyone is interested, please contact me at TravertineDesignStudio@gmail.com .

I live in southeast Texas.

Thanks!

Theresa

julian

There is a narrow (7") band of hard gray material encircling the entire stairway leading up to the recessed front door. I had initially assumed that this material was gray marble or granite, but there are some small areas of delamination which reveal a friable white crystalline substrate beneath the color. These crystals seem shiny rather than matte (and are especially white) and therefore do not resemble the lime putty (+sand and horsehair) plaster that we have inside the house. The colored layer is perhaps 1/8" or thinner and is rough and brittle.

Is this material scagliola? Or perhaps stucco lustro? Or Venetian plaster? What other possibilities should I consider (and rule out) before I proceed?

Unfortunately, this material was painted-over decades ago. Much of the paint is chipping off cleanly and does not appear to be taking off any of the original material with it, but in other areas the paint remains (relatively) firmly attached. It seems to me that paint removers (either organic solvents or caustic chemicals) would likely harm the surface of scagliola.

Can anyone offer any advice? I can't afford to hire an expert to perform a professional restoration, so I am doing all the work myself. What should I use to stabilize and/or repair the delaminated areas?

Finally, I have one last question: is it unusual to see scagliola outdoors? I suspect for other reasons that my home was originally built with a door and sidelights at the foot of the stairs, creating a sort of foyer, and it seems to me that the presence of scagliola (or whatever this is) would tend to lend further support to my hypothesis.

Thank you so much to anyone patient enough to read all the way through this overly-long message! ~~Karen

Have you tried flaking the material off and seeing what happens.

Email the pictures if you can.

jgreco@adicolor.com

Thanks

Have you managed to get answers to your questions?

If not try putting your question to the people on this site. http://www.muralsplus.com/cgi-bin/discus4_00/discus.cgi hope this helps.

One suggestion to the composition of the scag is Keenes cement, from what I know keenes was widely used at that time.

Ed

Yes, I believe I have what's called Marezzo marble, or American Scagliola. It's made with either marble dust or paint pigments (this detail varies in the descriptions I've seen) instead of marble chips. Apparently it was made in reverse order from scag-- marezzo was made on site, and the first step was to lay the pigmented component on glass. This made the surface smoother from the start, so that less polishing was necessary when the marezzo was later removed from the glass.

I found some very helpful information at the GSA's Historic Preservation Technical Procedures pages, at http://w3.gsa.gov/web/p/HPTP.NSF/Repair%20Procedures?OpenView. See "09 Finishes" > "200 Lath & Plaster" (This is a great resource, BTW!)

Unfortunately, it appears that my marezzo was severely scrubbed-- or even sanded-- before it was painted over. I haven't been able to get a good photograph of the material-- it just winds up looking a bit like mottled gray concrete, without much character. Restoration is not going to be as simple as just touch-ups and polishing. On the positive side, I don't have to worry about being the one who ruins it... anything I do will be an improvement.

~Karen
karenmkrohn@iname.com

Can I suggest you do this, if possible use wet 'n' dry on a small area of marezzo, to see if you can bring the colour back, use plenty of water and try not to scrub too hard.

If the marezzo was made in the traditional manner the veins of colour should have soaked deep into the plaster/keenes cement. So if your careful you could restore the colour.

Hope this helps

Ed

Marmorino
arba7@wanadoo.fr

Do you think you can help on these two points?
First:
How do I get rid of some mold stains on my stucco marble? I think I waxed the piece too early and now I have some greyish stains on my cream stucco marble. I took the wax away ( i hope) but the stains are there. WHat can I do?

Second: How long does one have to fill in the carved out parts of a scaglila piece? How do you manage when there two or more colours side by side?

Merci

Marmorino

This must sound incredibly silly!

Here are a few of the links I have used to try to learn about scagliola. The italian Massinelli book seems to be "the thing", but it is very difficult to get, I believe and, being rare, probably expensive.

1/Most of the stuff is, alas, in Italian. With my French and my Spanish I try to understand.
The stuff in English is interesting for beginners.

http://www.plasterarc.net/
http://www.plasterarc.net/essay/index.html

2/Very interesting, although old fashioned at times. But perhaps closer to crafts people and the "real" thing.

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~quarries/marble_workers_manual/mwh-p4_sect1_2.html#imitation_m

3/More technical, it is restoration, but many parts confirmed what i had found on the other sites.

http://www.chemie.uni-hamburg.de/ac/AKs/Dannecker/enviart/second.html

4/ I haven't read it. But have come across the ref.of this book on a few web sites.

http://www.massinelli.com/
http://www.massinelli.com/Scagliola.html

Hope i haven't been too long

Marmorino
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/arba7/pandora/index.html

I will go straight down to my blue pony and change the glue dilution. Will give news. It's a shame because I am really on a productive high when the piece progresses.
Bernardo, is selenite essential for scagliola? I am going to start a tile and want to now if my slow set special "staff "plaster of Paris is okay. Impossible to get marble powder at a reasonable price out here. To think i live in the Pyrenees. Will try Spain if you think using marble powder is better than my plaster. All the "recipes" either talk about selenite or marble powder. Very few mention Plaster of Paris.

Muchissimas gracias!

Bye for now.

Marmorino

I do not see anything wrong with your pic.
I wish we had more members posting images.
This will give the reference points to many interesting discussions.

Are you shure you want to take it off?

Marmorino

Thanks a lot.
I am strating a scagliola tile yhis weekend as i have now quite a bit of info to get along. Then i can test your tips and see wht gives.

Bye

>in the mean time I'll copy the lecture
>and perhaps send it to those interested....Lets
>spread the knowledge and keep the good things
>alive!

why wont you post it here?

Hi,

Thanks so much for the offer to make copies of the lecture on the procedure on making scagliola. I'd like to offer renumeration for what ever cost you incur and look forward to hearing from you.

mary

CIAO ANDREA (TRUST ME IT IS EASY WORK WITH SCAGLIOLA STUCCO GRASSELLO MARMORINO ETC THAN WITH THIS THIN)

Where is the best school to learn Scagliola? Is the Mastro course in stucco in San servolo italy good or is there a better school in italy. I've been a plasterer for about 18 years and very recently used lime for inside and out. I've got a very great interest in the art side of plastering.

I have read william millar.
e mail srbplast@aol.com

Any way, If you found out about it from another sourse contact Hayles & Howe Inc in Baltimore and if they can't help try a company called South West Industrial Plasters based in England. They may be able to ship it to you but it wont be cheap, at 18.00 pounds a bag and the shipping cost. But it is the best plaster for scag work. Working on a big scag job out in California at the moment and we had to ship all our bags out here from the uk.

Good luck.