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Subject: "Large-scale mural advice needed"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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MikeN
Member since 20-Feb-09
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21-Jun-09, 11:46 AM (PST)
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"Large-scale mural advice needed"
 
   Hello everyone,

I was hoping to get some advice from folks who have experience working with very large scale frescoes. I have been offerred a chance to propose a fresco for a space that is up to 10' tall by 30' long. It's a beautiful space in a greek revival building from the early 1900's (a real opportunity of a life time)!

While I am very familiar with the painting technique, including plaster layers, I am a looking for information regarding the building of a proper support, capable of holding the 3,000 + lbs. of weight. Currently the wall functions as an interior wall and is red brick covered by old plaster and paint. I figure my options are to remove the plaster and start from scratch on the brick layer (after properly prepping by removing/replacing salt and over baked bricks, etc.) or create a panel wall on the outside of the existing brick wall.

Personally, I have no idea of the condition of the bricks since 99% of them are still covered with plaster. I would hate to remove the plaster only to find most of the bricks unsuitable. I have been envisioning a panel wall although I have never built one for such a large and heavy project (5'x7' is about my largest).

Is a wooden frame, fastened to the existing wall and backed with 3/4' plywood completely out of the question? Any other advice? Would this panel wall require an iron frame with iron studs to support the wieight? How would this be fastened to the existing wall and floor?
Thanks a million for your time and expertise!

Mike


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Large-scale mural advice needed adminadmin 22-Jun-09 1
     RE: Large-scale mural advice needed MikeN 22-Jun-09 2
         RE: Large-scale mural advice needed adminadmin 22-Jun-09 3
  RE: Large-scale mural advice needed mozart 18-May-10 6
     RE: Large-scale mural advice needed adminadmin 23-May-10 7
         RE: Large-scale mural advice needed mozart 01-Jun-10 8
             RE: Large-scale mural advice needed mozart 01-Jun-10 9

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adminadmin click here to view user rating
Charter Member
286 posts, 4 feedbacks, 6 points
22-Jun-09, 09:42 AM (PST)
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1. "RE: Large-scale mural advice needed"
In response to message #0
 
Hi Mike,

Yes, you need to build a panel (ignore the wall, you are right it will most likely be faster and sure enough more dependable since you built it) - offset it 1" or so.

You do not need plywood - just build it as regular stucco wall and apply the layers ontop - the # of layers and thickness of the wall depends on the length of painting time required for the longest/most complex giornata, aka - simple compositions with simple giornatas will require "thinner" wall. You can view detailed diagram of plaster thicknesses in this Fresco Painting DVD - Buon Fresco Foundations: Volume1 - FRESCO PLASTER:

http://www.truefresco.com/frescoshop/product_info.php?products_id=45

You do not need any plywood backing - 10ft is low just nail 2X3 to the wall and stuccco mesh over for the scratch and rough + fresco plaster layers.

learn fresco at http://FrescoSchool.org

fresco painting video tutorials: http://www.FrescoSchool.com

also visit

Fresco School Video Channel
http://youtube.com/FrescoSchool

Contemporary Fresco Gazette
http://trueFresco.Org
commission fresco or mural http://iLAdesigns.com

admin
____________________________
Contemporary Fresco Painting Resouce Center
http://TrueFresco.com


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MikeN
Member since 20-Feb-09
5 posts, Rate this user
22-Jun-09, 10:07 AM (PST)
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2. "RE: Large-scale mural advice needed"
In response to message #1
 
   Got it , thanks for the great advice! Will the 2x3s be spaced similar in distance to wall studs or wooden lath?

BTW, I purchased the video a bit earlier and didn't realize it mentioned supports. I will watch it tonight!

Thanks again!

Mike



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adminadmin click here to view user rating
Charter Member
286 posts, 4 feedbacks, 6 points
22-Jun-09, 06:21 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: Large-scale mural advice needed"
In response to message #2
 
just like the wall joists - 16" apart

and GL

learn fresco at http://FrescoSchool.org

fresco painting video tutorials: http://www.FrescoSchool.com

also visit

Fresco School Video Channel
http://youtube.com/FrescoSchool

Contemporary Fresco Gazette
http://trueFresco.Org
commission fresco or mural http://iLAdesigns.com

admin
____________________________
Contemporary Fresco Painting Resouce Center
http://TrueFresco.com


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mozart
Member since 25-Nov-01
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18-May-10, 12:44 PM (PST)
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6. "RE: Large-scale mural advice needed"
In response to message #0
 
   Dear Mike,

I have worked on frescoes in Florence and have worked as an assistant to a muralist. My feeling about your project would be to think why would you paint in fresco as a medium choice. It is an art form that stands the test of time and works best on a brick or lime based substructure. If you are going to paint in this medium and put such effort into a work, I believe you should do it right and make it to last. If you are going to paint in such an old home, make a work that meets the integrity of the surrounding craftsmenship. Scrape off the old plaster and score the old bricks. Clean the wall thuroughly and let it dry for a good amount of time. One wall in Italy we used a very thin, hollow brick tile and cemented them onto an existing wall. The hollow tiles made it hard for chemicals from the older wall to wick into the new fresco. We also included in this new foundation chunks of charred oak. The oak helped absorb any possible moisture and damaging chemicals wishing to push through to the surface of a mural.

Sincerely,

Mozart trazom34@hotmail.com


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adminadmin click here to view user rating
Charter Member
286 posts, 4 feedbacks, 6 points
23-May-10, 03:21 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: Large-scale mural advice needed"
In response to message #6
 
Hi Mozart,

Great to read you again.


>The hollow tiles made it hard for chemicals from
>the older wall to wick into the new fresco. We
>also included in this new foundation chunks of
>charred oak. The oak helped absorb any possible
>moisture and damaging chemicals wishing to push
>through to the surface of a mural.


Why make it harder when it is easier to make it completely impossible by building an offset (1-2 inch away) wall/panel infront?

Just like Rivera did or i do for that matter?

learn fresco at http://FrescoSchool.org

fresco painting video tutorials: http://www.FrescoSchool.com

also visit

Fresco School Video Channel
http://youtube.com/FrescoSchool

Contemporary Fresco Gazette
http://trueFresco.Org
commission fresco or mural http://iLAdesigns.com

admin
____________________________
Contemporary Fresco Painting Resouce Center
http://TrueFresco.com


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mozart
Member since 25-Nov-01
6 posts, Rate this user
01-Jun-10, 12:58 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: Large-scale mural advice needed"
In response to message #7
 
   Mike,

My solution is just one approach to a problem. If the site of the work(especially if it is large and takes a considerable amount of time to complete) is in a location where it may possibly show for a long long time, it may be best to insure that the surface is of the best quality and craftmenship. It is possible to paint a fresco in a studio, remove it from the wall, and transfer it to a light-weight fiber glass surface. These mounts are easy to install, do not have a heavy load,and may go on a variety of surfaces. See fresco museum in Pisa. Yes, there are a variety of board surfaces that work well with slaked plaster. See this website or email Gary. The instruction,artists,and projects I have worked on have followed more traditional methods and steps that have proven successful for centuries; this is why I would offer such advice. It is just one suggestion to consider. You are right to think carefully about a surface because so much rests above it. Good luck.

Mozart


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mozart
Member since 25-Nov-01
6 posts, Rate this user
01-Jun-10, 01:13 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: Large-scale mural advice needed"
In response to message #8
 
   Mike,

Sorry, I forgot something. The tiles and oak were used on an exterior wall that had a problem with moisture, which is why we used them to rebuild the foundation surface. If your wall does not show signs of water damage or salts wicking through, then consider removing the existing plaster, scoring it, and cleaning it well. When beginning the first layer of plaster, be sure to get the old wall damp the night before. If the hundred year old wall is strong and thick, I just think it is best to join plaster with this surface and make the painting and wall one. You said you have good experience with plaster so why not work with the wall? good luck again and post some pictures.

Mozart


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